The Long Term Investor

Discussion in 'Investing' started by WXYZ, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    Yup the Holland tunnel toll was 1.25 and a round trip on the 7 train was .50 cents... a 40 was .25 and a pack of lucky strike was a buck which we thought was expensive....
    Miss those days... drugs were expensive af tho we never cared
     
  2. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    WELL.....I am in there with TomB16......I remember very well the OIL CRISIS.....and the HUGE shock to the economy. My boss would send me to sit in line at the gas station to......try........ to get gas in his car. When I was in High School in the 1960's......gas stations were having price wars and it was not unusual to get gas for 21cents a gallon in Texas.

    The Iran hostage years with Jimmy Carter......those four years just SUCKED the life out of the economy and the soul out of the country. Of course......those years came after the Ford years......with......people wearing WIN buttons........."whip inflation now". The government had a slogan for the country regarding inflation. Of course the Ford years.....followed the Nixon Impeachment and the resignation for criminal behavior of the siting Vice President, AGNEW.....another shock to the country. AND....of course the Nixon years followed the......LBJ....Viet Nam quagmire.....riots in the streets....bombings of buildings by the weather underground (now college professors) etc, etc, etc. Of course....the LBJ years......followed the assassination of Kennedy.

    I think investors had a little bit on their plates back than......including one of the longest BEAR MARKETS in history in the 1970's......massive inflation.....Stagflation....the 1987 flash crash......the dot com crash......the near economic collapse of 2008/2009, etc, etc.

    Kind of makes what is going on now.........some sort of CRAZY JOKE.......to see how people are reacting......in the face of one or two week events that are actually TRIVIAL....to those of us that lived and invested since the 1970's......1980's.....1990's.....2000's.....2010's.....up to now.
     
    #3922 WXYZ, Feb 25, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  3. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    W "Thank You" for the consolidated news report
    I remember Paper certificates, I think I lost a couple :hmm:
    I remember 27 cent gasoline
    You learn quickly GRASSHOPPER !
    When Covid hit MY first reaction was
    "How much cash do I have in my brokerage accounts ?"
    I picked up some good buys last March
    MU @ 37.61 and 43.31
    Intel @ 49.70
    But (I'm Hoping) this, COVID, was one of those once in 5-10 year occurrences

    Today , I was kind of indifferent
    I was thinking do I want to add to any of my positions
    But in the end it's a lot of research , and just easier to accept , and let it ride .:booyah:
     
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  4. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Charlie Munger has a lot in the business news lately.....lots of interview quotes on many topics. He has the GUTS....and money.....to say what he thinks and not care. Here are a few:

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/char...rybody-can-be-a-great-investor-131527716.html

    “I think people have the theory that any intelligent, hard-working person can be a great investor,” he said. “I think any intelligent person can get to be a pretty good investor and avoid certain obvious traps.”

    “But I don’t think everybody can be a great investor, or a great chess player,”

    “It’s a mistake for investment management to hire armies of people to make conclusions. Better off to concentrate your decision power in one person... and choose the right person,” he said. “I don’t think it’s easy for ordinary people to become great investors.”

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/its-...orms-luring-gamblers-to-stocks-192624515.html

    ON GAMESTOP....“That's the kind of thing that can happen when you get a whole lot of people who are using liquid stock markets to gamble the way they would in betting on race horses," he said. "And the frenzy is fed by people who are getting commissions and other revenues out of this new bunch of gamblers. And of course, when things get extreme, you have things like that short squeeze."

    It's really stupid to have a culture which encourages as much gambling in stocks by people who have the mindset of racetrack bettors. And of course it's going to create trouble, as it did,"

    "And I have a very simple idea on the subject. I think you should try and make your money in this world by selling other people things that are good for them," he said. "And if you're selling them gambling services where you rake profits off the top like many of these new brokers who specialize in luring the gamblers in. I think it's a dirty way to make money. And I think that we're crazy to allow it."


    In another question, Munger was asked whether he still identified "wretched excess" in the financial system, as he had warned of in February 2020, and asked where he saw the excesses as most egregious in the current market. "It's most egregious in the momentum trading by novice investors lured in by new types of brokerage operation like Robinhood," Munger said. "And I think all of this activity is regrettable. I think civilization would do better without it."

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/munger-the-world-would-be-better-off-without-spacs-213619922.html

    ON SPACS "I don't participate at all. And I think the world would be better off without them," the 97-year-old billionaire investor said. "I think this kind of crazy speculation in enterprises not even found or picked out yet, is a sign of an irritating bubble."

    "It's just that the investment banking profession will sell s— as long as s— can be sold," Munger said.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mung...bitcoin-by-quoting-oscar-wilde-195247281.html

    ON BITCOIN “I don’t think bitcoin is going to end up the medium of exchange for the world,” he said in response to a question about new technology disrupting the banking system. “It’s too volatile...to serve well as a medium of exchange.”

    The reason, Munger said, was that central banks like controlling their own banking system and their own money supplies.
    “It’s really kind of an artificial substitute for gold,”

    Bitcoin, Munger said, reminded him of an old Oscar Wilde quote about fox hunting: “the pursuit of the uneatable by the unspeakable.” (The quote is actually: "Fox hunting is the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible," from the play “A Woman of No Importance.”)

    When asked what was more unbelievable, Tesla’s stock price or bitcoin at $50,000, the 97-year-old billionaire quoted the lexicographer Samuel Johnson: “I can’t decide the order of precedence between a flea and a louse, and I feel the same way about those choices.”

    “I think people who are professional traders that are going to trade cryptocurrencies, it’s just disgusting,” Munger added at the time. “It’s like someone else is trading turds and you decide I can’t be left out.”

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/char...he-crisis-in-wealth-management-114327424.html

    Investing icon Charlie Munger, Berkshire Hathaway's (BRK-B, BRK-A) vice-chairman and Warren Buffett's long-time business partner, says his type of value investing will “never go out of style.” “Because value investing — the way I conceive it — is always wanting to get more value than you pay for when you buy a stock, and that approach will never go out of style,”

    According to Munger, some think that value investing means chasing companies with a lot of cash but run a lousy business.
    " don't define that as value investing," he added. "I think all good investing is value investing. It's just some people look for values in strong companies and some look for values in weak companies. But every value investor tries to get more value than he pays for."

    Munger observed that in the wealth management space “a lot of people think if they have 100 stocks they're investing more professionally than they are if they have four or five." “I regard this as insanity. Absolute insanity,” Munger said. "I think it's much easier to find five than it is to find 100," the 97-year-old investor argued. "I think the people who argue for all this diversification, by the way, I call it 'diversification,' which I copied from somebody. And I’m way more comfortable owning two or three stocks which I think I know something about and where I think I have an advantage.”

    "when asked how he advises universities and charitable institutions to manage their endowments, Munger shared that one charitable endowment where he’s had “some influence for a very long time” has a “bunch of hotshot financiers in every branch of wealth management there is” on its board. According to Munger, that institution has two assets in its endowment account — a large interest in Li Lu’s limited partnership and a Vanguard index fund. “And the result of holding those two positions, we have a way lower cost than anybody else and we make more money than practically everybody else," he said. "So you now know what I do in charitable institutions. By the way, that's not the normal outcome in America. The wealth management industry has a crisis on its hands. They really need the world to stay the way it is, and that isn't necessarily right for its customers.”

    MY COMMENT

    TALK about....BLUNT. BUT...he has certainly earned the right to speak. Take what you wish from any of the above....I think his opinions are interesting for discussion or thought.
     
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  5. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    Is anybody or everybody familiar with the BOGLHEAD Philosophy ?
     
  6. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    The thing that people DONT realize is.......very few people invested until the advent of the IRA in 1974. Up into the mid 1980's it was still very RARE for people to be investors. Before than I think the percentage of people that owned a stock or mutual fund was probably 10% or under. There was no need for people to invest....everyone that worked for a company had some sort of pension plus Social Security.

    "According to the first share owner census undertaken by the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) in 1952, only 6.5 million Americans owned common stock (about 4.2% of the U.S. population)."https://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/09/stocks-1950s-1970s.asp

    THE ABOVE....is why it was so UNUSUAL for my mom to be investing in mutual funds and stocks....starting...... in the mid 1950's. She actually had a broker......highly unusual.......at that time for anyone.....especially a woman.

    I remember very well in 1977......guys going to the Merrill Lynch office at lunch to watch the stock ticker in the lobby. That was the ONLY way to get real time quotes.
     
  7. Rustic1

    Rustic1 Well-Known Member

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    Read a lot of his stuff and owned baby Bs up until I liquidated the end of 2020. Very brilliant man. Some of us fail to realize the millennials are taking the reigns and their view points are different along with investing styles. I grew up on big wheels, these modern kids grew up on computers and are very good at it.I have never had a robinhood account, looked into one for my yolo stuff but they are lousy to say the least. Times are different, we can accept it and modify or get left in the dust. I've got a 10 year old that is a computer genius. He loves the market and has some impressive results for a kid.
     
  8. roadtonowhere08

    roadtonowhere08 Well-Known Member

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    That is some serious common sense porn right there. Loved every word!
     
  9. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Question for you all. In 2020, since I was negatively impacted by covid, I was able to withdraw from my IRA without the usual 10% early penalty. I used the money for house repairs and to start my stock account. Taxes, etc were/are paid over 2020-2022 and I can also repay any of this by end of 2022 (this point is key) and get paid taxes refunded.

    Now stocks are down quite a bit, maybe they drop even more in the short term, and I would love to buy more in my positions so I can gain considerably when they come back. I thought of taking another 30K or so out of the IRA. I would of course owe my tax rate of 12% plus state plus 10% early withdraw penalty. Picture I buy stocks low now with the goal pf paying back to my IRA in 2021 or 2022. To break even I would need to gain 10% (early withdraw penalty) plus whatever I would have earned leaving it in the IRA. If we're entering possible bearish conditions, is it reasonable to expect say a 15% comeback or better?

    Am I thinking smart or am I thinking nutty?
     
  10. Rustic1

    Rustic1 Well-Known Member

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    Acts of desperation often endure devastating consequences.
     
  11. T0rm3nted

    T0rm3nted Moderator
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    In my opinion, you're thinking nutty. If you take out $30k - taxes - early withdraw penalty you'd have to make far better than 15% comeback. Remember your IRA is probably also down from the last week's minor correction, and will also have made a "comeback" too. So you would have to OVERPERFORM the comeback that your IRA would have made as well. You're looking at needing more like a 25% return based on my in-my-head math just to break even with where your IRA would have been if you just left it alone.

    From what I've noticed on the forums, you also don't have years of practice doing the trading/investing that you're doing now. You don't have a proven track record over a decade or so to know you can sustain something like 25% YOY growth. Wouldn't it make more sense to see if you can just get a self-directed IRA account or have the funds transferred to a new firm that will let you? That way it's not 25% just to break-even?

    We haven't even talked about the fact that the market could continue to go down and these "budget prices" you're seeing right now aren't even close to the bottom? I don't believe we're looking at a crash or correction right now, just a standard pull-back, but it can always get worse.
     
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  12. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Desperate actions rarely produce the desired results it is true. But this proposed action, while maybe unintelligent, isn't desperate, any more than buying stocks on margin. If you borrow via margin at x% and gain x+5% you've won. My idea involves risk but doesn't investing in general?
     
  13. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for a thoughtful and informed response. Good reasons not to do it so I'm leaving the IRA alone. FYI though that the taxes get refunded to me when I pay back the IRA
     
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  14. Rustic1

    Rustic1 Well-Known Member

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    Don't mean to be critical but you are all over the place. I like to see people make money.
     
  15. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Your criticisms are tolerable just sometimes your delivery is more on edge than necessary. Comparing me to a "crying girl" earlier was over the top.
     
  16. Rustic1

    Rustic1 Well-Known Member

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    You would probably do better if you logged out of your account and left it alone for 6 months. The World is not ending STONKS dont always go up.
     
  17. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Wouldn't it make more sense to see if you can just get a self-directed IRA account or have the funds transferred to a new firm that will let you?[/QUOTE]

    I'm going to look into self-directed IRA. Not familiar with them.
     
  18. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Ha Ha. I never thought stocks would always go up and I know the world isn't ending. That's why I bought even as prices were dropping yesterday. You know something? My NVAX position dropped 9% yesterday. I bought it yesterday, it increased 2%, and ended up 9% down. Did I sell it again and run for the hills? No. Yes it's down beyond my trigger point of 6-8% below buy but it went down along with everything else. If I sold it what would be the point? I'm staying with it because I believe the stock will weather this short term GME, bond rate, and whatever else driven nonsense. GTN did the same yesterday as NVAX but I didn't sell. I sold nothing yesterday. Most of my positions are still very much green and I see nothing to sell.

    You seem to think I'm a real panicky person. Hell I'm a driving instructor teaching teens how to drive and there's no way I could do the job if my nature was to panic. I could tell you some driving instructor stories of mine that would make most people wet their pants.

    I think you've really pegged me unfairly.
     
  19. T0rm3nted

    T0rm3nted Moderator
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    I'm going to look into self-directed IRA. Not familiar with them.[/QUOTE]

    I have a self-directed 401k. It basically lets you take control of your own retirement account instead of letting whoever decide which random funds/ETF's they put the money into.
     
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  20. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    Don’t invest money that you need is my advice. Of course - EVERYONE needs money. But if it’s money that you don’t wanna see for 5-10-30++ years just ignore all the noise and let it ride either direction
     
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