The Long Term Investor

Discussion in 'Investing' started by WXYZ, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. With anything in life you answer only to yourself, those who your decisions affect, and the Almighty. If I fail in investing, the only ones impacted are myself, my wife (who is free to slap me around), and maybe our daughter (also free to slap me around).
     
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  2. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    I stuck my toe in the pool with amazon this morning, it looked sooo good below alphabet on my holdings sheet that I went back and doubled up on it .

    Thank You guys for your opinions on it over the last couple pages , I appreciate it .

    Gtrudeau: I agree with your comment about Dividend stocks, and have looked at them the same way, sometimes it's REALLY hard to come up with more cash to add to your portfolio (especially while raising kids), and dividend stocks inject that cash straight into your account for you to invest, It's a tool I have used the past few years.
     
    #4362 oldmanram, Mar 10, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
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  3. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    ANOTHER nice day....at least so far. This will either be the END of this little correction......or....at the minimum knock it back a bit.....actually.....a BIG BIT. BUT......time will tell.....a few day rally is NOT a sure indicator.

    I like this little article.

    Why You Should Be Wary of Claims That the Stock Market Is in a Bubble

    https://time.com/5944831/stock-market-bubble-analysis/

    (BOLD is my opinion OR what I consider important content)

    "Bubbles, bubbles everywhere. So say an increasing number of Wall Street professionals, who see the lofty prices of everything from equities to Bitcoin, new homes to the soaring value of newly public companies as clear signs that the financial system is again on the verge of a major reset similar to what happened in 2000 and 2008. Legendary money manager Jeremy Grantham thinks that it’s even worse than that, with a high likelihood that the next move will rival the crash of 1929 in severity, while Ray Dalio, head of the world’s largest private fund manager Bridgewater Associates, says that their proprietary indicators show that while we are not yet at levels seen just before the 2000 and 2008-2009 crashes, we are getting perilously close. And with the pull back this week, along with the sharp sell-off in many of the high flying companies that have doubled or more over the past pandemic year, there’s a rising chorus saying the bursting is upon us.

    But is it true? The fact that stocks have run up in aggregate 80% since they dove in the first weeks of the pandemic in March, or that bitcoin has gone up nearly five-fold or that Tesla has soared almost eight times over to become bigger than the next ten global auto makers combined by market cap certainly should force everyone to ask the bubble question, as should the nearly $20 trillion that global governments have spent to shore up economies devastated by pandemic disruptions. And then there is the SPAC phenomenon, which is a complicated vehicle to bring private companies public and is seeing a multi-billion frenzy. “I mean, Shaq has a SPAC. What could go wrong?” quipped one bubble-watching economist recently.

    Assets soaring, however, is not in and of itself a sign of bubble. Since the dot-com crash of 2000, bubble-hunting has become its own cottage industry. If there’s any doubt about the veracity of that statement, just look at Google’s Ngram (which traces usage of all printed words over time): the use of terms such as “stock bubble” and “stock market bubble” soared after 2000, crested in 2005 and then receded a bit but still has stayed at level never seen until 2000. Calling bubbles, predicting them, and warning of them has almost become a bubble itself, but that also means that almost all of these predictions have been wrong.

    Almost exactly a year ago at this time, I warned that markets were due for a sharp correction and that the emergence of COVID-19 was more than a valid reason. It got much worse before it got better, but it has since gotten much, much better than almost anyone expected. The widening gulf between those that have thrived in the Zoom economy and those economically devastated by the pandemic has simply intensified an already wide gulf between capital and labor. Those realities are reflected in stock markets: in our pandemic year tech companies are up four times more than energy and consumer staple companies. The contrast gets even more acute comparing bankrupt retail chains such as Nieman Marcus with on-line retail superstars such as Etsy, Farfetch and, of course, Amazon.

    The past two weeks saw some wild selling and lots of volatility, as both the Nasdaq and S&P 500 indices gave up their gains for the year. That led to a fair share of “I told you sos” by those bears who had been predicting doom, but the selling was triggered – as it often is – not by any swift change in the fundamentals of companies but by a shift in expectations reflected in rising interest rates. Stock sold off not because of negative economic news and expectations but because of very positive ones, that the pandemic would soon be in the past, that trillions more in federal spending would bolster even those ailing the most, and that consumers, after hibernating in pandemic-land, would soon unleash an orgy of spending, driving up prices and inflation.

    But there’s still good reason to question whether any of that portends bubbles about to burst. First, even if the bubble hunters are onto something timing matters. If you had listened to Alan Greenspan (then chair of the Federal Reserve) in 1998 warning of irrational exuberance and sold your stocks, you would have missed massive gains, especially had you then taken some profits before March of 2000.

    The word “bubble” assumes speculative mania, and that is not at all evident just now. There may be pockets of that in those Shaquille-infused SPACs (though honestly, Shaq has done better managing his investments than most of us). Perhaps the recent frenzy surrounding Gamestop was also a signal of froth. Stock markets, however, represent 4000 or so companies, the vast majority of which represent the cream of the crop of capitalism; even the most speculative of them are seeing massive revenue growth even if they are still losing money. Valuations are always a relative game; stocks just like the hard-to-get Sony Play Station are worth what people are willing to pay. Most companies in the markets are growing far more than any national economy, and if you want your investments to grow, hitching a ride with companies that are thriving makes more sense than investing in government bonds whose yields barely match inflation.

    The final reason to be skeptical of bubble mania is that so many people are so certain that we are in a bubble simply because stocks have gone up. Skepticism, let alone pessimism, is almost the opposite of euphoria. Even the wealthy have been keeping an usually large amount of cash on hand, which is itself a sign of uncertainty. Average Americans, who likely won’t be the primary fuel of stock market investing, have been saving like it’s the Great Depression, because for many it has felt like one. But the upper income brackets, who are a primary fuel for markets, have been parking even more in cash. An extra $2 trillion has been added to savings accounts, bringing the total to more than $5 trillion, higher than during the Great Recession in 2009. There’s no guarantee that money will be invested, but the fact so many are sitting on so much cash is a sign not of euphoria but of caution.

    Finally, we’ve seen in the past few years rapid sell-offs that act like mini-bubble burst. Tesla, that high-flying stock and company, soared in 2020 and then saw its stock plunge from a high above near $900 to below $650 in a few weeks; Peloton went from $150 to $105. Moves of 20-30% in a short time span are more common. The result is that we may be witnessing a continually formation and popping of mini-bubbles all the time, which doesn’t fit neat narratives of huge market moves. Over the past weeks, a whole bunch of high-flying stocks like Zillow (everyone seemed to be real-estate shopping on-line during the pandemic) and Peloton sold off more than 30%, and they were hardly alone. Apple and Amazon were both down nearly 20% from their highs in early February. If you’d bought stocks such as these a few weeks ago, it certainly felt like bubbles popping, even as the overall indices were only down a few points.

    It’s possible that by the time you read this, everything will have changed; it’s possible as well that it will all change back the day after you read this. The weird resilience of financial markets in a weird time, however, is unlikely to change much for the foreseeable future. That will likely frustrate bubble watchers, and confound those who rightly note the yawning divide between capital and labor. But for now, the only evident bubble in the markets is the sheer number of people predicting bubbles about to burst. Bet against them before you bet against the markets."

    MY COMMENT

    HOW TRUE. The modern financial media at work. There will be a DOOM&GLOOM theme.....EVERY DAY....in the media. Most will be wrong as usual......but once in a while when one is actually right....they will have that as a resume builder for the rest of their life......."the man that called the XXXXXX of 2021"....blah, blah, blah.

    AS USUAL........ignore the CHAFF. The markets NEVER go straight up....or.....straight down. A normal market moves up and down continuously over the short term. That is just reality. AND to long term investors such as myself......IRRELEVANT.
     
  4. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy for you. I don't get jealous at someone else's success. I'm up .8% on the day so far so I'm happy and I hope you're happy for me too.
     
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  5. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have an article or page direction to ALL the companies which were in a bubble in 1999 and have NEVER gained their value back since?
    I would love to see exactly which companies/stocks were contributing to that climatic collapse and see if I can draw parallels to market behaviour/stocks today
    Thanks in advance
     
  6. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Inspired by the article I posted above that figured an average day trader might be earning as low as $4.80 an hour day trading, I decided to see what my investing hourly salary might be.

    I think I'm I'm making equal to what I did in my high paying IT jobs. My last IT job I was $57.69 an hour. I think I have been averaging 5-8 hours of real work per week investing since the start of the year. January was partially spent reading articles and websites about the "how to" of investing but let's assume 8 hrs a week for 9 1/2 weeks. My realized gains work out to an hourly salary of $28. If I include my unrealized gains I'm up to $56 an hour.

    Unfortunately,
    this money I'm earning is ultimately for retirement so I can't touch it.
     
  7. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    Thank You, G
    what I like about this forum is the amount of knowledge it brings on a daily basis , thank you WXYZ.
    I also get to look at things from a different angle sometimes, and that is a great thing.
    We are all walking along the same path , going toward the same or similar goal in life ,
    we just happen to be at different places along that path

    And G , maybe it's GOOD you can't touch it till then !!!:)
     
  8. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I can think of several ways to creatively spend it! We live pretty simply but I could use a nice vacation. Actually we are planning one to Hawaii once this covid crap ends as we're married 25 yrs this May. We have enough frequent flyer miles to get there cheap and we'll be staying with relatives the whole time.
     
  9. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    TRTN is on a tear. I'm up 16-20% on my initial purchases and the buys I did on the 25th are up 6%. The overall gain is close to 12%.
     
  10. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations !! And enjoy Hawaii , you guys deserve it , making it 25 years these days is an accomplishment . My brother is over there right now , are you familiar with the protocol ?

    For some reason I can hear in my ear
    "cut out the personal chit chat and get back to investment talk"
    wonder where that's coming from ?
     
  11. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Got a nice little surprise today. I had sold my LLY position a couple weeks ago and forgot that I sold it after the ex-dividend date. I got $20 and bought 1 share of GTN to celebrate.
     
  12. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know the protocol which is why we are waiting. We're in the Novavax phase 3 trial and in June or so we'll get the opposite shots of what we got in Feb. I hope by then that the protocol gets modified to allow travel based on vaccination.

    It's been a great 25 years and we've had great examples from both sides of the family. My folks were married 59 yrs when Mom passed and all 3 of my siblings are on their 1st marriages, all longer than me. My wife's folks had 31 yrs when her Dad passed and 2 of her 3 siblings are on their 1st marriages, both longer than us. Even the sibling who divorced had 17 years.
     
  13. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    Those are great examples , and it is important to have those ,
    My wifes parents almost made it 50 years , her dad passed a moth shy of that date (5 years ago)
    Her mom passed a year ago May
    My parents were married for 55 years before my mom passed 3 years ago
    My 92 year old Dad is still around , AND he still comes into the office a couple times a week, just to check up on things.
     
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  14. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with chit chat. All investing talk all the time is boring. But I am not a mod. So I don’t run or decide anything. I would not want to either. A thankless job. The mods on this board do a great job.
     
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  15. emmett kelly

    emmett kelly Well-Known Member

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    assuming that rate, my hourly pay for trading is about $111 in 2021.
     
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  16. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Nice!!!
     
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  17. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    Impressive !!
    This is the kind of day I like , just a slow steady growth day , and mostly green :)

     
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  18. emmett kelly

    emmett kelly Well-Known Member

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    like you, i don't touch the long term investments. this is just my play money. one bad trade screwed up my numbers. overlooked the earnings report date and that stock took a dive. dumped it for loss. holding one right now that i'm close to dumping.
     
  19. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Everything for me is green except CSSEP which is down only .19%. This is a good day.
     
  20. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    Volatility will likely be here for awhile as I guessed from the outset of this “correction” start a couple-three weeks back. Question is where is it gonna push- up or down?
    Interesting that this is all happening while retail investing is not shaken off by it....
    Another interesting observation I had for quite awhile is that tsla almost ALWAYS plays a major role with recent corrections (the one in late sept/October were also in sync with the company’s swings).... and now that it’s part of the sp500 I can’t see how Wall Street could ever get rid of it short of taking a hit.
    And now Elon got the bit coin posse in the mix on his team and.... many other companies follow suit....
    Seems to me like a huge step in progression with the markets, to a point where tech companies are no longer seen as - the new kids on the block. So you got your conservative assets, your tech assets, and now the crypto assets.... all that riding a new trend of Reddit meme stock wave....
    Which one of these is in a bubble or
    Which one of these is causing a bubble?
    Almost sure it’s Tesla- all the signs tell you that it is- But Tesla is such a GREAT force and Elon is a rising superstar it’s hard to imagine him losing the table at this point
     
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