The Long Term Investor

Discussion in 'Investing' started by WXYZ, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good to me.

    Exclusive-Nvidia to launch cheaper Blackwell AI chip for China after US export curbs, sources say

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-nvidia-launch-cheaper-blackwell-120346162.html

    "BEIJING/TAIPEI (Reuters) -Nvidia will launch a new artificial intelligence chipset for China at a significantly lower price than its recently restricted H20 model and plans to start mass production as early as June, sources familiar with the matter said.".......

    ......."According to two of the sources, Nvidia is also developing another Blackwell-architecture chip for China that is set to begin production as early as September. Reuters was not immediately able to confirm specifications of that variant."......
     
  2. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    BUMMER....if you sold. AND....I would guess that most people that sold are still waiting to get back in. AND....most of them will enjoy paying a capital gains tax on their next income tax return.

    Investors Who Sold Stock During Tariff Scare Lose $7.6 Trillion

    https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-...during-tariff-scare-lose-trillion/?src=A00220

    (BOLD is my opinion OR what I consider important content)

    "Everyone has told you selling S&P 500 stock out of fear will cost you — but how much? Try $7.6 trillion in just about a month.

    Now that the Trump administration is walking back much of its tough tariff talk, the S&P 500 is roaring back. S&P 500 companies added $7.6 trillion in market value since bottoming this year on April 8, says an Investor's Business Daily analysis of data from S&P Global Market Intelligence and MarketSurge.


    "Since the worst-case scenario — recession — seems to have been averted, at least for now, the global focus is shifting away from tariffs and toward fundamentals," said Sam Stovall, strategist at CFRA.

    Big Gains For Patient Investors

    Watching the Nasdaq plunge 20% and the S&P 500 almost that much was uncomfortable. But selling into the panic was a costly move — and ultimately even more painful.

    The S&P 500 has rallied more than 17% from the April low. And that means it has nearly erased its year-to-date loss. And it would have been hard to miss this rally. Nearly 445 S&P 500 stocks, or roughly 90% of the S&P 500, have added market value since the April low.

    And some of the rebound gains are head turning.

    Massive Gains From Lows

    AI chipmaker Nvidia (NVDA), which found itself in the middle of the tariff debate, is the biggest market value winner. It added $894 billion in value from the April lows. That's more than any other S&P 500 stock.

    Nvidia stock, up 38% from April lows
    , has regained an RS Rating of 74. Meanwhile, analysts think its profit will surge 47% this fiscal year. The stock is now only down 1% this year.

    Microsoft (MSFT), emerging as a software king of AI, is up $745 billion in market value from the low. And it's already up 8% on the year, pushing its RS Rating to 82. Analysts think Microsoft's EPS will rise 13% this year.

    But not all rebounds are making S&P 500 investors whole just yet. Apple (AAPL) has gained $418 billion back from the April low. And that's thanks to a 17% rise from that low. The risk of tariffs, though, is still an issue and keeping the stock still down nearly 20% for the year.

    Overall, though, staying in the S&P 500 game even with all the tariff noise was the way to go in most cases.

    Biggest S&P 500 Market Value Gains From April Low

    Company
    Ticker Market Value gained ($ billions)

    Nvidia NVDA $893.9
    Microsoft MSFT $744.9
    Apple AAPL $418.4
    Tesla TSLA $364.1
    Broadcom AVGO $351.6
    Amazon.com AMZN $347.9
    Meta Platforms META $306.8
    Alphabet GOOGL $302.5
    Netflix NFLX $133.2
    JPMorgan Chase JPM $120.8
    Walmart WMT $111.7"

    MY COMMENT

    Suddenly all the talk in the media and fear-mongering about the impending.....RECESSION....is gone. Where did it go? Where is the recession?

    WELL....I will tell you....there was NEVER going to be a recession. It was ALL simply BS. It was ALL to drive clicks. It was ALL a tool to manipulate SUCKERS. Dont fail for this "stuff"....IGNORE it all.
     
  3. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    I like this little article.

    The Dumb Money Isn’t So Dumb Anymore

    https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2025/05/the-dumb-money-isnt-so-dumb-anymore/

    (BOLD is my opinion OR what I consider important content)

    "A reader asks:

    I think the education of retail investors is better than it’s ever been — blogs, books, newsletters, podcasts, etc. The proper education about how crazy markets are and to not overreact and to think long-term is working. And that’s why retail is the smart money now. Could be a good topic: Is financial education working?

    My short answer is, yes, financial education seems to be working.


    Allow me to explain.

    When I graduated college and started my first job I quickly realized I had a bunch of textbook knowledge but no understanding of how markets, people, incentives, behavior or investing works in the real world.

    This was back in 2005.

    There were no podcasts, blogs, newsletters, YouTube channels or social media personalities to learn from. So I read as many books about the markets and behavioral psychology as I could get my hands on.

    I peppered people with questions. My boss was kind enough to give me a tutorial on a whiteboard every few weeks about how the markets work. He taught me about asset allocation, diversification, investment policy, and how to communicate with clients.

    It certainly wasn’t easy and took a number of years until I was comfortable enough to feel like I knew anything of substance.

    Investing itself was difficult too.


    There were higher minimums, higher fees, no zero-trade commissions, less automation and a bunch of antiquated legacy financial firms that generally made it difficult to invest if you were just starting out.

    Now we have much better resources. The barriers to entry have vanished. You can now set up an account on your iPhone and buy fractional shares of stocks five minutes later. Plus, investors have been beaten over the head for 15 years straight about the power of long-term thinking, market timing is hard, don’t panic, etc.

    In the old days, the assumption was that retail investors would buy high and sell low. They got greedy when others were greedy and fearful when others were fearful.

    That’s not the case anymore.

    The dumb money isn’t so dumb anymore.


    JP Morgan data shows there was a record monthly inflow by retail investors in April to the tune of $40 billion:

    [​IMG]
    The stock market fell 20% and retail investors didn’t run for the exits. They bought low!

    Markets were in a freefall and retail was the steady hand. How about Wall Street?

    According to Barron’s, professional investors were more bearish on stocks than they have been in at least 30 years.

    The smart money got scared. The dumb money rushed into the burning building. Maybe the smart money isn’t so smart anymore.


    Of course, being a good long-term investor is not just about buying stocks when they’re down (although it helps).

    There are now more set-it-and-forget-it investors than ever before.

    In 2024 just 5% of investors in a Vanguard 401k plan made changes to their portfolio. There is now more than $4 trillion in targetdate funds. More money is going into index funds and ETFs and out of actively managed funds:

    [​IMG]
    Investors are making better decisions than ever before.

    Does this mean retail investors are perfect?

    Of course not!

    There are still plenty of people who speculate, employ too much leverage, chase fads, trade short-dated options and invest in stuff they don’t understand.

    But that’s always going to be the case. You can’t save everyone. If everyone were a disciplined long-term investor, long-term investing wouldn’t work as well as it does.

    I’ve been using the terms smart and dumb money a lot here but I’m not a huge fan of that nomenclature. There are intelligent professional investors. There are intelligent retail investors. There are foolish professional and retail investors too.

    I don’t know who the smart money is exactly. It seems to change from cycle to cycle.

    But retail as a whole is certainly not the dumb money anymore.

    Financial education is working and investor behavior is improving.


    This is a wonderful development."

    MY COMMENT

    NOTHING is ever as it seems.....the "dumb money"....the little retail investors are NOW the smart money. The PROFESSIONALS....the experts.....are now the STUPID money.

    We are in a golden age of long term investing. Over my investing life of over 55 years....I have never seen long term investing accepted like it is now. I have never seen as many long term investors as there are now. Over most of my investing years long term investors were MOCKED, HARASSED, and DERIDED as fools.

    JOIN US......yes...."YOU" can join us.

    Take the first step to the rest of your life, to financial security for yourself and your family. The most difficult part of long term investing is taking that first step.

    In fact...you dont really have to know anything about investing. Just do some cursory research and consider opening a retirement account or a brokerage account with a single holding....a SP500 INDEX ETF. From there.....learn while you earn.....and improve your knowledge. BUT.....for your own sake....start NOW.
     
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  4. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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    From the post and article above. That is a good sign the working long term investors are doing what they should. They are keeping their head about things, making their contributions, and just moving along. Also, just doing nothing.

    Especially, the younger ones. There is no need to really concern yourself with any of the day to day, week to week, or much any other time frame at this point. Many have an additional 20-30 years of investing ahead of them. Most of the noise will not even be remotely in memory by that time. It will simply not matter. Time is your ally and compounding over that time period will yield more than you thought was possible in the end.

    Don't tinker and get distracted. Let the portfolio do it's work uninterrupted and it will produce the results over time. Do not fall for the "I got to get rich quick" schemes. You will be glad you stuck with it later down the road.
     
  5. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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    I find this interesting on many levels in a way.

    We are fortunate to have another great US based company here. Especially, in this particular sector. We are lucky to have them here for many reasons.

    They truly have global reach in investment and customers. Much like many other US companies. The article/headline is interesting and also some of the reaction to these things. I am in agreement with most here that China is an adversary in most aspects. We rail against some of the practices and government control all the time.

    In this case, here we have NVDA producing/manufacturing a chip for them. Obviously, there are/were restrictions on some of the other stuff, so this still gives them an ability to reach this particular market and country. I find it interesting with all of the "finger wagging" and breaking off trade with China narrative that people don't also carry that same view on things like this.

    If we really believe that "dealings" with them are a deal with the devil, why wouldn't we feel the same in this case? We often hear and talk about the need to lessen or totally separate from it, only to really quietly return to business as usual.

    My guess is always on the money. It is always about the money. We really want it both ways, despite being able to admit that we want it that way.

    It's not just NVDA, there are many other companies as well that generate a massive amount of money with China. We want the profits without the association, but it really doesn't work that way. We might like to be able to decouple, but when we see the cost to do that.....well they are cheaters and spies, but man we are making some bank. We might not like to admit that in our little "relationship" and carry on about it in public, but behind the closed doors....yeah, it is a different story.

    Interesting the psychology/money/adversary dynamic involved.
     
  6. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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    Along with the "dumb money" article above another article about the large amount of money hanging out in money markets and other accounts. Folks have some reserves built up. Some of this is just setting there getting a nice rate too. There is also a decent chance for some to use it to buy into the market as well. I think it's probably a bit of both likely to happen. Some good safe places to park money and get a nice yield and still participate in having your stocks too.

    https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2025/05/where-is-all-of-the-money-coming-from/

    A few posts from it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of American Made. An article regarding the AAPL I-phone in the US. This kind of goes along with the little spat between AAPL and the goal of the administration's push for them to be made here. Of course, there are some political type comments within it as with most any article nowadays. It is interesting to see some of Cooks comments and thinking when this has been brought up before. Also, interesting are some of the comments by the Commerce Secretary. Generally kind of gives an idea about how and why it would be a big move and quite honestly why it will likely never come to fruition at large scale.

    Maybe we do get some reinvestment to a degree, which would be a good thing. I just do not see it being feasible from a company standpoint. The all or nothing attitude isn't going to entice business nor is my way or the highway. That said, encouraging and incentives may get some better positions, but we also have to have some common sense. A rare thing indeed.

    Tech
    Here’s how much a ‘Made in the USA’ iPhone would cost

    When President Barack Obama asked the late Apple CEO Steve Jobs about making an iPhone in the U.S., Jobs didn’t mince words.

    “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” Jobs said at a dinner with Obama in 2011.


    The president of the U.S. and the CEO of Apple have changed, but the ambition of a “Made in the USA” iPhone remains.

    Defending its “reciprocal tariffs,” the White House on Tuesday said President Donald Trump believes the U.S. has the workforce and the resources to build iPhones in the U.S. Neither Apple CEO Tim Cook nor anybody else at the tech company have come out to back that claim, but analysts who follow Apple say a U.S.-made iPhone is impossible at worst and highly expensive at best.

    As it’s largely a theoretical exercise, there’s a broad range of guesses as to how much an all-American iPhone might cost.

    Bank of America Securities analyst Wamsi Mohan said in a note Thursday that the iPhone 16 Pro, which is currently priced at $1,199, could increase 25% based on labor costs alone. That would make it a roughly $1,500 device.

    Wedbush’s Dan Ives pegged a U.S. iPhone’s price at $3,500 shortly after Trump’s April 2 tariff announcement, estimating that Apple would need to spend $30 billion over three years to move 10% of its supply chain to the U.S.


    At the moment, Apple makes more than 80% of its products in China. Those products are now subject to a 145% tax when they’re imported into the U.S. since Trump’s tariffs went into effect this week.

    Experts say that a “Made in the USA” iPhone would face serious challenges, ranging from finding and paying a U.S. workforce to tariff costs that Apple would incur importing parts to the U.S. for final assembly.

    There’s broad agreement among analysts and industry watchers that it’s not likely to happen. Wall Street has doubted for years that Apple would make an American iPhone. “I don’t think that’s a thing,” Needham’s Laura Martin quipped on CNBC this week.

    “It’s just not a reality that on the time frame of imposing tariffs that this is going to shift manufacturing here. It’s pie in the sky,” said Jeff Fieldhack, research director at Counterpoint Research.

    Apple designs its products in California, but they are made by contract manufacturers, such as Foxconn, the company’s top supplier.

    Even if Apple spent heavily to get Foxconn or another partner to agree to build some iPhones in the U.S., it would take years to construct the plants and install the machinery, and there’s no guarantee that U.S. trade policy might not change yet again in a way that would make the factory less useful.

    The biggest issue with a U.S.-made iPhone is that the U.S. doesn’t have the same workforce as China —though the massive number of workers needed to build iPhones is one of the attractions for the Trump administration.

    “The army of millions and millions of human beings screwing in little screws to make iPhones, that kind of thing is going to come to America,” Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said on CBS on Sunday.

    Foxconn builds iPhones and other Apple products in massive campuses in China that include dorms and shuttles. Workers often travel from nearby regions to work at the plant for short periods, and employment surges seasonally in the summer before new iPhones come out in the fall. The well-oiled system helps Apple pump out more than 200 million iPhones per year.

    Additionally, Foxconn over the years has come under scrutiny for worker conditions many times, including in 2011 when the company installed nets around some of its buildings after a rash of worker suicides. Oversight groups have said that Foxconn’s work is grueling and that workers are pressured into working overtime.

    Despite working conditions, Foxconn hired 50,000 additional workers at its biggest factory in Henan to build enough iPhones ahead of the latest models’ September launch, Chinese media reported last fall.

    But Chinese workers get paid far less than American workers. The hourly wage during the iPhone 16 surge was 26 yuan, or $3.63, with a signing bonus of 7,500 yuan, or about $1,000, according to the South China Morning Post. For comparison, the minimum wage in California is $16.50 per hour.

    Mohan estimated Thursday that the labor cost for assembling and testing an iPhone in the U.S. would come in at $200 per iPhone, up from $40 in China.

    Cook has also said that another issue is that American workers don’t have the necessary skills. In a 2017 interview, Cook said there aren’t enough tooling engineers in the U.S. Those engineers work on and configure the machines that take the sophisticated designs from Apple, which come in the form of computer files, and transform them into physical objects.

    “The reason is because of the quantity of skill in one location, and the type of skill it is,” Cook said when asked at a conference why Apple does so much production in China.

    A meeting of tooling engineers in China could fill “multiple football fields,” but in the U.S., it would be hard to fill one, Cook said.

    The most recent effort to have Foxconn move significant production to the U.S. was a failure.

    Trump announced a $10 billion investment from Foxconn to build plants in Wisconsin in 2017. Apple was never officially attached to Foxconn’s Wisconsin location, but that didn’t stop Trump from claiming Apple would build three “big beautiful plants” in the U.S.

    Foxconn changed plans several times for what the Wisconsin plant would produce, but it eventually settled on making face masks during the pandemic — nothing related to electronics. The Foxconn Wisconsin plant was pitched as delivering 13,000 jobs, but it only created 1,454 jobs.

    During the pandemic, plans for the plant were abandoned, and most of the facility remains unbuilt.

    Apple worked with Foxconn in 2011 to expand iPhone production to Brazil to avoid large import duties in that country. The plant is still operational today, and will produce iPhone 16 models to help Apple get around U.S. tariffs, according to recent Brazilian media reports.

    But even after the $12 billion factory became operational, most components were still imported from Asia, and in 2015, four years after the plant was announced, the iPhones made in Brazil retailed for twice the price of iPhones made in China, according to Reuters.

    However, recent efforts by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., Apple’s main chip manufacturer, have been successful. TSMC now makes small quantities of cutting-edge chips at a new factory in Arizona, and Apple’s a committed customer.

    Even if iPhones could be assembled in America, much of what goes into an iPhone comes from countries around the world, all of which the U.S. has imposed tariffs on.

    The vast majority of parts in an iPhone are made in Asia. The processor is manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan, the display is produced by South Korean companies such as LG or Samsung, and the majority of the other components are made in China.

    Apple would face tariffs on most of those parts, according to Mohan, unless it could secure waivers for individual parts. Semiconductors, which are among the most valuable parts inside an iPhone, are exempt from tariffs at the moment.

    Trump on Wednesday put a 90-day pause on most of his tariffs, but if the pause comes to an end, a Yankee-made iPhone 16 Pro Max could increase in price by 91% thanks to tariffs and increased labor costs, Mohan wrote.

    “While it may be possible to move final assembly to the U.S., moving the entire iPhone supply chain would be a much bigger undertaking and would likely take many years, if even possible,” Mohan wrote.

    Though Jobs shut down the idea of an America iPhone flat out with Obama, Cook hasn’t taken the same unvarnished approach.

    Instead, Cook’s strategy has been to engage with Trump, including attending his inauguration in January. Apple also announced that it will spend $500 billion within the U.S., including on some AI server production in Houston. Trump regularly cites the investment with approval.

    During the first Trump administration, Cook’s strategy worked.

    Although Trump talked about U.S.-made iPhones and Apple building plants in the U.S., the tech company was able to secure temporary exemptions for many of its products made in China. That meant Apple didn’t have to pay tariffs on important devices such as the iPhone.

    The charm offensive during Trump’s first term culminated in the fall of 2019 when Apple extended its commitment to assembling the $3,000 Mac Pro in a Flex factory outside Austin, Texas. Trump toured the factory with Cook.

    Before Apple commits to a red, white and blue iPhone, it may produce some lower-volume products or accessories in the U.S. to charm Trump, Wall Street analysts say.

    “Given we now know that the Trump administration is willing to negotiate, we wouldn’t be surprised to see Apple commit to some small-volume production in the US (HomePod? AirTags?), similar to its September 2019 commitment to manufacture the new Mac Pro in Austin, TX, to try and win an exemption,” Morgan Stanley analyst Erik Woodring wrote in a Thursday note.

    Apple declined to comment.
     
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  8. roadtonowhere08

    roadtonowhere08 Well-Known Member

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    This stuff is so predictable, it's not even funny. Capitalism rewards cost cutting and profit maximization. In fact, it is a legal requirement for publicly traded companies. The fact that anyone expects corporations to deviate from that is laughable. That is why I am totally against taxpayer dollars being used to lure companies. They will take the money, do a bit of shady commitment silliness, and move on when a better deal comes along... with the taxpayers holding the bag. It's terrible with the explosion of sports stadium projects. Screw that.
     
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  9. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I quoted my own post...LOL. I can't help it. This comment above....:rofl:
     
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  10. roadtonowhere08

    roadtonowhere08 Well-Known Member

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    He's never going to live this one down. Just too epically stupid to forget.
     
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  11. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    This is a horrible business....lending money to consumers for small purchases. IDIOTIC for the consumer......and I believe very dangerous for the business. I think the business SEVERELY underestimates the amount of money they will lose from unpaid loans.

    Klarna's losses double as more buy now, pay later customers struggle with loans

    https://www.techspot.com/news/108034-klarna-losses-double-more-buy-now-pay-later.html
     
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  12. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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    On a side note, take a moment over the long holiday weekend (Memorial Day) to honor and remember the military service personnel that have gave the ultimate sacrifice during the course of their duty. They have all earned that honor. It is important to remember and not take for granted those that have served.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. roadtonowhere08

    roadtonowhere08 Well-Known Member

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    I think we had a rather large crisis due to unpaid loans. Sometime around 2007-2008. If you give them enough rope...
     
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  14. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Of course the markets are closed on Monday for Memorial Day.
     
  15. roadtonowhere08

    roadtonowhere08 Well-Known Member

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    I hate to bring up Costco, buuuut:

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/costco-now-offering-buy-now-193000596.html

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    As to the above and COSTCO....I think their customers will be totally different than the typical buy now and pay later customer.

    AND......no.....this is not being done or funded by COSTCO...it is simply a "partnership" with a buy now pay later company AFFIRM....which will be a payment option for COSTCO customers....but online only.

    AND.....I believe it is only for WEB purchases and the cart needs to be at least $500. AND....the AFFIRM plan for COSTCO customers will only charge "simple interest".

    So.....NO....COSTCO is not going into the "buy now, pay later" business and it is not COSTCO that will eat the losses if this does not work out.

    I have no problem with a company like COSTCO making a plan like the AFFIRM/COSTCO plan available as an option for their customers for larger purchases.

    BUT......I would NEVER invest in one of the actual lending companies that are in the business of making these loans. As to AFFIRM....at least they are profitable......but as I said....I am not interested in owning these sorts of lending businesses.
     
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  17. roadtonowhere08

    roadtonowhere08 Well-Known Member

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    I probably should have put a goofy emoji. I'm just messing with you, as I know you like Costco, and as you have laid out, this is clearly different.

    I still hate "buy now, pay later" for anything but very large ticket items. Like >$5,000 large.
     
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  18. mizugori

    mizugori Member

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    @WXYZ - As always, thank you so much for continuing to share a wealth of invaluable information. My investing results have been simply amazing since I discovered this thread some years ago. Really I can't thank you enough!

    Between work, kids, and graduate school, I can't keep up with every post here but I check in from time to time to see what the latest news and insights are.

    Would you mind sharing your current list of stocks you're watching / the ones you are currently interested in buying?
     
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  19. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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  20. Smokie

    Smokie Well-Known Member

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    COST is about like any other major retailer as far as offering other ways to reach customers with offerings.

    Many offer some type of credit program nowadays. Some offer 0% if balance is paid in a short amount of time. There are others that even give a certain percentage off purchase….I think Lowes and HD do something like that. In those cases you could save a little and just turn right around and pay it off. The key being….get the discount and immediately pay it off soon.

    Of course, that is different than the above Affirm offering, but some retailers do have the deal I mentioned above.
     

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