The Long Term Investor

Discussion in 'Investing' started by WXYZ, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    The COLLECTOR GENE. Some people have it.......many dont. I know Zukodany has it. My wife and I both have it. It can be a good thing and it can be a curse. There is always some item that you want but can not afford. If it gets out of control it can lead to financial ruin. At our age and with limited room on our walls and in the house.........that helps to keep it under control. We ALSO have an ANNUAL BUDGET for this sort of thing......so we dont go too wild.

    PRIME DIRECTIVE......for collectors:

    Buy the best quality item you can. QUALITY trumps quantity. QUALITY will hold its value.

    I have a friend that for a while was collecting Ken Griffey Jr baseball cards back in the 1990's. I talked him into buying one really top of the line card. It was $350 back than.....that was a lot of money for him at the time and he was hesitant....but he bought it. He has hundreds of Griffey cards and stopped buying a long time ago. Most are not worth much....but....that one big time card is now worth about $7,000 at the grade he has.

    That card is a RARE Refractor card. We visited them a few months ago.....in another state.....yes we FLEW on multiple airplanes during the virus pandemic. I asked him if he still had his cards and he got his cards out. He still had all of them.....but no longer collects and had not looked at or followed them for many years. He had no idea that card was worth that much. I would guess that card will be worth many tens of thousands of dollars some time over the next 20-30 years. Perhaps even up to $100,000 or more over the next 50 years.....IF.....big IF.....the sports collectable MANIA continues.

    HIGH END sports collectables are EXTREMELY hot right now and have been for years.....game used uniform pieces, bats, cards, signed balls, etc, etc, etc. Many items go for hundreds of thousands and into the millions. SPACE memorabilia is also VERY HOT right now....especially anything that went to the moon. Comic books are crazy hot. I dont collect any of these items....but.....I do get magazines and other info regularly from various auction houses so I follow the market a little bit.
     
    #2621 WXYZ, Nov 27, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  2. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    I was out of touch most of the day....we had THANKSGIVING today. A nice average GREEN today....with....a beat of the SP500 by .66%. Nice way to end a short market week and a short market day.

    The SNOW buy that I did at the open ended well. I bought 100 shares at $310 per share. At the close the price was $328.79.....a gain for the day of $18.79 per share......or.....a gain of 6.06%. BUT.....these shares will be a long term holding in that account.

    SP500 gained 2.26% this week. Year To Date is +12.62%.

    I remain fully invested as usual for the long term. I have a very strong feeling that we are going to make some REALLY GOOD money over the next 5-6 months.
     
  3. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    Oh man I can go for DAYS about all the unique collectibles and vintage pro audio gear that I collect. Wait.. days? ... make that weeks! And properties... it all started with a little store front in queens and expanded to 50 units!
    No no no WXYZ... it’s DEFINITELY a curse!
    And the biggest problem with me is I NEVER SELL! I just buy and buy.. And now I’m into stocks. Oh boy, it never ends.....!
    It’s good to know that it’s there and builds value, it makes me more confident with future purchases. Every purchase HAS to gain at least 5% annual interest, and that includes our businesses. With stock I learned I can expect a lot more. But gosh, I can never see myself sit glued to the computer and monitor my stock activity 24/7. Maybe it will end up happening one day, but for now I get more excited from tangible assets.
    And that comes from someone who went to art school and was heavily into music for DECADES. I never believed I’d ever show interest in STOCKS. Life.... What a crazy ride!
     
  4. BigPear

    BigPear Member

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    I originally planned to hold the stock of new energy electric vehicle for a long time, but the price is a little high now.
     
  5. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    Excellent beat of the Sp500 by .50 today.
    Excellent week for me as I stated earlier. Ytd I’m up over 50% in my long term account and 14% in my temporary account.
    At least, I just call them that, I always say I’ll sell my short term account once I get to 10% but I never do that.
    Like I said... it’s a problem
     
  6. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    WELL DONE Zuodany. It is good to enjoy success and have fun with making money. YES....selling is probably one of the greatest issues and problems for many investors. NO ONE picks good stocks all the time. The first step is to ADMIT that a holding is not performing as expected.......or.......did for a while but is no longer doing so. The second step is to actually sell it. Investors.......obviously get emotionally and psychologically tied to their holdings. A difficult issue.

    On another topic.....it is the SIMPLE things that lead to investing success. For me.....that means NOT changing my approach as long as it is working. I have been investing in the same way for 40+ years now. different holdings over that time....but the same process and thinking over and over and over.

    Here is a little article for those that might be new to investing.....or....considering long term investing versus trading:

    10 Tips for Successful Long-Term Investing

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/00/082100.asp

    (BOLD is my opinion OR what I consider important content)

    "While the stock market is riddled with uncertainty, certain tried-and-true principles can help investors boost their chances for long-term success.

    Some investors lock in profits by selling their appreciated investments while holding onto underperforming stocks they hope will rebound. But good stocks can climb further, and poor stocks risk zeroing out completely.

    Understanding Successful Long-Term Investing
    Ride a Winner

    Peter Lynch famously spoke about "tenbaggers"—investments that increased tenfold in value. He attributed his success to a small number of these stocks in his portfolio.

    But this required the discipline of hanging onto stocks even after they’ve increased by many multiples, if he thought there was still significant upside potential.1 The takeaway: avoid clinging to arbitrary rules, and consider a stock on its own merits.

    Sell a Loser
    There is no guarantee that a stock will rebound after a protracted decline, and it’s important to be realistic about the prospect of poorly-performing investments. And even though acknowledging losing stocks can psychologically signal failure, there is no shame recognizing mistakes and selling off investments to stem further loss.

    In both scenarios, it’s critical to judge companies on their merits, to determine whether a price justifies future potential.

    Don't Sweat the Small Stuff
    Rather than panic over an investment’s short-term movements, it’s better to track its big-picture trajectory. Have confidence in an investment’s larger story, and don’t be swayed by short-term volatility.

    Don't overemphasize the few cents difference you might save from using a limit versus market order. Sure, active traders use minute-to-minute fluctuations to lock in gains. But long-term investors succeed based on periods of time lasting years or more.

    Don't Chase a Hot Tip
    Regardless of the source, never accept a stock tip as valid. Always do your own analysis on a company before investing your hard-earned money.

    Tips do sometimes pan out, depending upon the reliability of the source, but long-term success demands deep-dive research.

    Pick a Strategy and Stick With It
    There are many ways to pick stocks, and it’s important to stick with a single philosophy. Vacillating between different approaches effectively makes you a market timer, which is dangerous territory.

    Consider how noted investor Warren Buffett stuck to his value-oriented strategy and steered clear of the dotcom boom of the late '90s—consequently avoiding major losses when tech startups crashed.

    Don't Overemphasize the P/E Ratio
    Investors often place great importance on price-earnings ratios, but placing too much emphasis on a single metric is ill-advised. P/E ratios are best used in conjunction with other analytical processes.

    Therefore a low P/E ratio doesn't necessarily mean a security is undervalued, nor does a high P/E ratio necessarily mean a company is overvalued.

    Focus on the Future and Keep a Long-Term Perspective
    Investing requires making informed decisions based on things that have yet to happen. Past data can indicate things to come, but it’s never guaranteed.

    In his 1989 book "One Up on Wall Street" Peter Lynch stated: "If I'd bothered to ask myself, 'How can this stock possibly go higher?' I would never have bought Subaru after it already had gone up twentyfold. But I checked the fundamentals, realized that Subaru was still cheap, bought the stock, and made sevenfold after that."2 It’s important to invest based on future potential versus past performance.

    While large short-term profits can often entice market neophytes, long-term investing is essential to greater success. And while active trading short-term trading can make money, this involves greater risk than buy and hold strategies.

    Be Open-Minded
    Many great companies are household names, but many good investments lack brand awareness. Furthermore, thousands of smaller companies have the potential to become the blue-chip names of tomorrow. In fact, small-cap stocks have historically shown greater returns than their large-cap counterparts.

    From 1926 to 2017, small-cap stocks in the U.S. returned an average of 12.1% while the Standard & Poor's 500 Index (S&P 500) returned 10.2%.3

    This is not to suggest that you should devote your entire portfolio to small-cap stocks. But there are many great companies beyond those in the Dow (DJIA).

    Resist the Lure of Penny Stocks
    Some mistakenly believe there’s less to lose with low-priced stocks. But whether a $5 stock plunges to $0, or a $75 stock does the same, you've lost 100% of your initial investment, so both stocks carry similar downside risk.

    In fact, penny stocks are likely riskier than higher-priced stocks, because they tend to be less regulated and often see much more volatility.

    Be Concerned About Taxes but Don't Worry
    Putting taxes above all else can cause investors to make misguided decisions. While tax implications are important, they are secondary to investing and securely growing your money.

    While you should strive to minimize tax liability, achieving high returns is the primary goal."

    MY COMMENT

    It NEVER hurts to repeat and emphasize the basic rules of long term investing. REPETITION including mental repetition is how certain actions become long term HABIT.
     
    #2626 WXYZ, Nov 28, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  7. Egalitè

    Egalitè New Member

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    Hello everyone, I write from Italy and I am pleased to find a respectable environment where the focus is on long-term investing.

    Personally I have one year of practice in the field, with positive and modest results, especially due to the low capital I initially decided to put at risk. By now I gained confidence in my strategy and mindset, so I decided to look for some direct confrontation with people like me, interested in the industry, who can bring different point of views, different experience, as I strongly believe in synergies originating from valuable discussion.

    In terms of what I invest in, I try obtain a combination of solid businesses with a strong competitive advantage, in sectorswhich I see can take advantage of the long term macrotrends we can see today (i.e. 5G, electronic payments ecc.). On top of that I count on strong analitical skylls for financial statements, market outlook, corporate strategy ecc, thanks to my academic and professional experience in corporate finance.

    That said I want to thank @WXYZ for creating this thread, sure that I will add value and I will take back part of it from all of you.


    My pleasure
     
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  8. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to Stockaholics, Egalite. :cool:
     
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  9. Globetrotter

    Globetrotter New Member

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    First of all, welcome Egalitè!

    Since Tesla is a hot topic in this thread, I would like to point out a couple reservations looking forward long term. I do believe that there will be an explosive rise in sales the coming years, but I am not convinced that electric plug in vehicles will be the dominant market player long term. Many people don't have the option to charge their car at home especially in the cities (People living in appartments and no garages). I just don't see that they will place charging stations everywhere on the streets.

    A potential game changer could be the future investments in Hydrogen technology. Fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) are powered by hydrogen. They are more efficient than conventional internal combustion engine vehicles and produce no tailpipe emissions—they only emit water vapor and warm air. For now the biggest disavantage for FCEVs en EVs alike is the lack of charging infrastructure.

    Another big disadvantage for FCEVs is the higher cost price. The biggest reason for the higher cost price is the low amount of production of FCEVs. When the infrastructure for charging FCEVs improves, FCEVs will probably be produced in GIGA amounts, thus driving the cost down.

    The biggest advantages are quick refuelling capability and zero CO2 emissions from the vehicle. Currently the production of (grey) hydrogen is mainly produced out of natural gas, the byproduct is CO2. A promising renewable option is the process of electrolysis. By the use of (renewable) electricity water can be split in hydrogen and oxygen. Electrolysis is an expensive method to produce hydrogen for now, but when the Gigafactories start to pop up, cost will go down.

    Here are a couple of links where you can read they already started or intend to start building the first Gigafactories for hydrogen production.

    Lancaster, California will host the world's largest green hydrogen project.
    https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/smart-energy/lancaster-california-to-host-worlds-largest-green-hydrogen-project/#:~:text=The City of Lancaster in,“greener than green” hydrogen.

    Plug Power Raises $1B for US Green Hydrogen Infrastructure Build-Out
    https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...or-u.s-green-hydrogen-infrastructure-buildout

    France and Germany are teaming up to produce more hydrogen.
    https://www.euractiv.com/section/en...up-aims-to-drive-hydrogen-production-forward/
     
    #2629 Globetrotter, Nov 28, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  10. Globetrotter

    Globetrotter New Member

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    There are possibilities to improve the infrastructure of hydrogen.

    In northern europe there already is a big cluster of hydrogen pipelines. These are mainly used for industries, but they have started connecting hydrogen gas stations.
    Map of northern europe hydrogen network: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...enelux-countries-The-red-lines_fig6_318179264

    In following article is a map of how the current hydrogen network could expand in Europe.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveke...ould-transform-european-energy-operators-say/

    I believe that Texas/louisiana already have the largest hydrogen network in the world.
    Map of Texas/Louisiana hydrogen network: https://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef014e8a7a013d970d-popup
     
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  11. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    HELLO Egalite. Welcome to the forum. You are welcome to post here any time you wish on any topic you wish. Input and participation help EVERYONE.

    "I try obtain a combination of solid businesses with a strong competitive advantage, in sectors which I see can take advantage of the long term macro-trends we can see today (i.e. 5G, electronic payments etc.). On top of that I count on strong analytical skills for financial statements, market outlook, corporate strategy etc, thanks to my academic and professional experience in corporate finance."

    Your approach and background sound like a perfect fit for a long term investor.
     
  12. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Globetrotter

    I ALSO believe that the future will be Hydrogen based. I see the electric vehicle as a transitional phase before Hydrogen.....or whatever else......becomes the long term standard in the industry.
     
  13. Egalitè

    Egalitè New Member

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    Thank you @WXYZ, I really appreciate your words!

    With regards to the "green" hydrogen, yes that is definitely the best solution on hearth but what is still "missing" is the technology for the electrolysis, at least an affordable one! But the trend is real, its just a matter of time, especially if we consider the crazy technology progress rate we can afford nowadays.

    To give you an example, $SNAM, which is the Italian monopolistic company to transport gas in Italy and some other European countries, already tried to use the same infrastructure to move hydrogen to some industrial site, and they did succesfully! Also they invested in several startupa specialized in the production of advanced equipment for electrolysis.

    In other words, there is a serious opportunity, one should figure out how to take advantage of it to maximize returns and minimize risk

    My pleasure
     
  14. Husker

    Husker Member

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    Great topic regarding the future of alternative fuels. I follow a thread on Disruptive Technology that has some great info.. For my two cents, here is an example from a man who works at UPS..

    The top 3 expenses in trucking are (in order): labor, fuel, and tires.
    The driving (pun intended) factor in trucking operations is DOT mandated hours of service restrictions.

    In short haul local operations, there is definitely a niche for battery or hybrid powered large vehicles, especially in public transportation/busses.
    Long haul OTR trucking will be the last place where diesel is displaced.

    Long haul trucking involves stuff that is either fast or slow.
    The slow stuff is actually two short haul legs with a long leg in the middle where it goes by train and the fast stuff is done with either layover drivers or sleeper team drivers.

    Tractor range is the most important factor for layover and team drivers because you don't want to burn driver time (DOT hours of service) refueling.
    New technology just doesn't yet have the range to efficiently work within the laws governing driver hours without making the tractors too long or too heavy.

    CNG tractors have a space problem, as the tanks are quite bulky.
    LNG tractors have been tried and are efficient, but the refueling is complicated/dangerous, distribution infrastructure is sparse, they are prone to leakage issues, and they require three types of refueling: LNG, diesel (for starting/warmup), and DEF (required for emissions if diesel is used).

    Battery powered tractors would be severely limited on range unless they had huge batteries.
    In that case, they would run into problems with axle weight on the tractor or possibly risk blowing past 80,000lb GVW for the full vehicle, requiring permits and constantly getting flagged to run through weigh stations (which costs driver hours...).

    Then there's the issue of maintenance and keeping tractors in service.
    Modern tractors, with all the computers and electronics, constantly have to be in the shop.

    The suspension must neccesarily be very stiff in order to bear such heavy loads safely.
    Over time, electronics get shaken to the point where tractors get gremlins.

    Something as simple as an ABS warning light is a serious violation (and potentially very unsafe) if the tractor is taken on road without the problem being corrected.
    Electric tractors would likely be even more complicated in this regard, which means more last minute gremlins, and more driver hours lost.

    UPS is always trying new technologies and testing them at a reasonably large scale to see if they're economical.
    LNG tractors were tried and failed, CNG tractors were tried and work everywhere except in long haul, but electric tractors have yet to be tested large scale.

    When you see UPS using all-electric vehicles on a significant scale, the technology is ready.

    <snip>

    My question is, where will the electricity come from to power 200,000,000 electric vehicles? Who pays for the infrastructure? Most EVs need to charge overnight. Any idea what solar power does overnight? A large part of the people pushing for EVs abhor nuclear power. NG is a fossil fuel and is therefore evil to the aforementioned EV fans. If I cannot leave on a cross-country trip without meticulously planning out the route based on EV charging stations, I would call that in an immature technology. That is not even considering the trucking industry and heavy vehicles.

    Some things to ponder, would love to hear some feedback...
     
  15. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Good points above......I will also mention...... MOST of the renewable sources of electricity are an ENVIRONMENTAL JOKE. BIO-MASS plants....total environmental destruction of the land where they get their materials. Not to mention the fact that they are TOTALLY worthless from a financial standpoint.......a disaster. No need to mention the pollution they cause in burning all that "STUFF".

    The windmills and solar farms......a complete BLIGHT on the environment. RIGHT.....lets cover hundreds or thousands of acres with solar panels or mirrors.....and call it an environmental tour de force. Or lets cover tens of thousands of acres nation wide with HUGE windmills that require roads, electrical lines, and other infrastructure to be put in place and sooner or later end up derelict and abandoned. Those big windmill fields that you see in some places are a total environmental eyesore. Not to mention the many other issues......capacity, financial, etc, etc.

    At the same time we have over 200 year supply of natural gas with much of the infrastructure already in place. We also have a world class nuclear energy industry with a exceptional safety record. Do we consider any of these? NO.......they are demonized relentlessly. It will be FUNNY to watch all the black-outs and other issues as people struggle with NO POWER over the next 10-50 years and wonder why nothing works anymore. As usual.....the movie IDIOCRACY........in real life.
     
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  16. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    Natural gas is the second highest polluter, after coal.

    We have lots of coal generation where I live and quite a bit of natural gas. We also have lots of blackouts.

    The near term future is nuclear, wind, and solar. I doubt we will undertake many new hydro projects but I'm sure there will be the odd one. The cheapest power comes from solar, in almost any location.

    I apologize for citing science but hydro is carbon dioxide positive, even post construction. For the first couple of years, the water action pelting on the river bottom releases a wee bit of carbon dioxide.
     
    #2636 TomB16, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  17. B Russ

    B Russ Well-Known Member

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    My take is that hydro....edit. Hydrogen.......is also added and un necessary cost. Now u have a big battery cost AND a combustubal engine to build and maintain.

    hydro refuling stations, big and bulky and expensive.

    tsla on the other hand is sending applications to property owners of specific business for them to apply to host their charging stations free of charger and or maintenance. Installing thousands per yr. i think 20k this yr. the pitch is win win. More business for owners, and meals or attractions for people road tripping.

    a car can charge in 30 minutes. Idk what that would equate to with a semi sized battery, but would assume its 620 mile range would be enough to max a driver out for his daily log anyway while they rest and recharge (both) their batteries. Haha. Idk about providing the power though. That does seem a high power demand to satisfy, but im not betting against their ability to do so. They are poweing multiple grids in austrailia. I guess they could handle semis?
     
    #2637 B Russ, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  18. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    I have been using "hydro" as a shorthand for hydro-electric. A dam and turbines.

    The issue with hydrogen is gross inefficiency. It takes a lot more power to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen than you get out when you recombine hydrogen with oxygen to make water, such that it doesn't scale.

    Consider how much generation we are going to need to electrify transportation. Now add 30~60% to that number for hydrogen fuel cells. I'm sure efficiency can be improved but it seems unlikely fuel cells will get to where they need to be with batteries already viable and improving relentlessly.

    Batteries, BTW, are 98~99% efficient.
     
    #2638 TomB16, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  19. Husker

    Husker Member

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    Good points.

    UPS, the largest trucking company in the world, has been buying primarily CNG powered tractors for years now.
    The Arizona fleet is mainly CNG.

    UPS has its own fueling stations in the major hubs.
    The CNG tractors are slightly cheaper per mile to operate, and the emissions are less than 1/50th the level of the new "clean" diesel tractors.

    There are both electric hybrid and CNG package cars being used in small numbers, hard to say which will prove more economical over a life-cycle (tractors have much shorter life-cycles).
    The way package cars are used (stop and go) is conducive to electric power, but the tractors most certainly are not.

    There is also the case of government meddling.
    Tax breaks, grants, expense avoidance, etc...

    UPS applies for and gets government grants to buy "clean" CNG tractors that they would've bought anyway.
    California restricts which tractors can enter, so UPS just sends its CNG tractors and enjoys a market advantage over the competitors.

    Also, the fact that oil fields have had restrictions on flaring natural gas has created an oversupply.
    Natural gas was once a waste product in oil production and now must be brought to market instead of being burned.

    It's hard to compete with free.
     
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  20. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    DULL and TIRED open today. I have no idea how the day will progress. I dont see much energy or excitement in any direction. In addition there is little to no economic, business, or financial news today. Probably a typical POST-HOLIDAY blah market....so who knows.

    HERE are the stories of the day.......but not much to hang your hat on for investors.....good or bad:

    Cyber Monday set to be biggest online shopping day in U.S. history

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ine-shopping-day-in-u-s-history-idUSKBN28A1ER

    AND

    Fed says extending four emergency liquidity programs to March 31, 2021

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...idity-programs-to-march-31-2021-idUSKBN28A1YG

    AND........for those that jumped on this little adventure in speculation earlier in the year:

    GM will not take a stake in Nikola

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-will-not-take-a-stake-in-nikola-131532766.html

    MY COMMENT

    MOVE ON PEOPLE.....nothing to see here. This is where we are.......at the open today. Markets are resting up before December starts. It will be interesting to see if anything can shake up the markets today and how we end the day. Whatever happens today.....it will be meaningless.....just a tired, boring, dull day......in the neighborhood.
     

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