The Long Term Investor

Discussion in 'Investing' started by WXYZ, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Ta
    Nice!
     
  2. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    I’ll take Known Unknown for 200 Alex
     
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  3. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    WXYZ;
    USUALLY, I just hire the work out, but this situation was a little different , the unit was ready to rent, when I noticed the toilet was rocking when I sat down on it. Since my handyman is a tenant (and right next door) we pulled it and found , the toilet was repaired a while back improperly, allowing it to rock (AND LEAK) damaging the subfloor , mortar bed , tile etc. To get a plumber (a week out) , a carpenter to repair floor (another week out) and a tile guy (who knows how long out !!) it was going to be a $5000 (or more) and a 3 week job, not to mention the lost rent along the way. I grew up on construction sites starting at age 9, my dad & grandfather were general contractors. I have worked for different sub's along the way, and have done all phases of construction. The only person I know that had all the skills required for this job, and would fix it PROPERLY, and was available to start right then was me. I know there are contractors out there who could have done it, but I really didn't want to spend the next 2 days talking , and meeting with them. I saw the finish line (getting it rented) and just wanted it done. I was only half joking about them (the apartments) being for sale, I am going to be selling them , using the proceeds to shift to either industrial or fast food buildings ( where the tenant takes care of the property ) Triple Net Properties, sometimes referred to as coupon clippers, 10,15 20 year leases . It's the equivalent of moving from no dividend high growth stocks and shifting to high dividend, high quality stocks. Something you are familiar with , judging from your portfolio.
     
    #4263 oldmanram, Mar 7, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  4. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Here is a little article outlining the past CRAZY year that we ALL just went through.

    It's been a year since markets crashed. Is another reckoning around the corner?

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/07/investing/stocks-week-ahead/index.html

    (BOLD is my opinion OR what I consider important content)

    "London (CNN Business)It's been nearly a year since the coronavirus pandemic ended the S&P 500's longest-ever bull run and sent stocks everywhere into a violent nosedive. The turmoil was a fitting start to a year of frenzied activity.

    The virus continues to wreak havoc on our daily lives, but markets have long since forgotten the painful reckoning.
    The big bang: March 12, 2020 handed Wall Street its worst day of losses in over three decades. The S&P 500 (DVS), Dow (INDU) and Nasdaq Composite (COMP) suffered double-digit declines, with the pan-European Stoxx 600 (SXXL) index logging its worst day on record.

    The collapse felt particularly shocking because markets had been shrugging off the coronavirus for weeks, even as alarm bells sounded in various corners of the global economy.

    But sentiment shifted abruptly when former President Donald Trump banned travel from most of Europe and the World Health Organization officially declared Covid-19 a pandemic on March 11.

    It's been a wild ride since. The crash was short lived and financial markets, fueled by government stimulus, powered through a devastating global downturn to end the year at record highs -- a stark reminder of the disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street.

    The latest: Many of the hallmarks of 2020 are still evident -- and not just in lockdowns, social distancing and working from home. The exuberance that's defined equity markets over the past 12 months has kept pushing stocks to all-time highs this year.
    The rise of retail traders, who revved last year's rally, continues unabated -- as captured by the extraordinary GameStop saga and the recent launch of an ETF focused on stocks generating social media buzz.

    The coronavirus is still with us, too, but investors are now banking on a swift and strong recovery as vaccine rollouts gather pace and the United States gears up for another enormous stimulus package.

    Big risk: Like this time last year, equity investors may be underestimating the size of potential stumbling blocks. Ironically, a booming economy may not be good for stocks because it could increase funding costs for companies and rob equities of their main selling point: superior returns.

    Bond yields have moved higher on increased inflation expectations, although from rock-bottom levels. Still, the shift has caused stock markets to wobble in recent days over fears that central banks could lift interest rates to prevent soaring prices and might rein in asset purchases sooner than anticipated, taking excess cash out of markets.

    While a strong recovery is good for corporate earnings, higher rates make debt more expensive, which could become a problem for companies that have borrowed heavily through the crisis. Stocks also look relatively less attractive when bond yields rise.
    Keep calm: The Federal Reserve has made it clear that it's willing to tolerate higher inflation if it means businesses are recovering and unemployment is in decline.

    While predicting an increase in consumer prices this summer, Fed chair Jerome Powell said Thursday that inflation would need to be sustained at 2% and the economy reach close to maximum employment before the central bank would consider increasing interest rates.

    Given that the US labor market is still short about 10 million jobs since the pandemic hit, it may be some time yet before rates get picked up off the floor.

    "The backdrop will remain supportive for equities in 2021," head of equities at London & Capital, Roger Jones, told me. "Longer term structural headwinds to inflation -- demographics, technology advancement and high levels of debt -- are stronger than ever. Additionally, equities can cope with inflation as long as it's not sustained above the 3% level," Jones said.

    The European Central Bank could have a new problem
    A sustained increase in consumer prices may seem a long way off in Europe, where economic activity remains severely constrained by lockdowns, stimulus is limited and the outlook for GDP growth this year has weakened.
    Despite all this, inflation has ticked up in the region and if bond yields keep rising policymakers could eventually be forced to take action.

    What's happening: The European Central Bank meets Thursday and investors will want to know how it's thinking about inflation. They'll also want some reassurance from ECB President Christine Lagarde that the central bank has no plans to tighten financing conditions.

    "The ECB will primarily try to downplay the recent increase in bond yields, calling it small in magnitude, driven by technical factors and focusing on real yields," head of research at ING Carsten Brzeski wrote in a note Friday.

    Brzeski expects the ECB to stress that asset purchases could be increased if necessary and move to frontload stimulus in the coming weeks to keep funding conditions favorable.

    Still, as recent volatility in bond markets indicates, a lot can change in a few weeks. Once economies reopen, a sudden rush for goods and services could lead businesses to hike prices. Excess savings in Europe will also juice the recovery if households spend some of that extra cash.

    "Once restrictions get lifted and fear of the virus retreats, it is reasonable to expect that prices will increase," ING economists including Brzeski wrote in a note last week. "Eurozone headline inflation could easily accelerate above the magic 2% level this year."

    Big picture: At least for now, Europe's economy looks a long way from overheating. GDP contracted again in the final three months of last year amid fresh lockdowns and, with many of those measures still in place, growth is unlikely to fare much better in the first quarter.

    A sluggish vaccine rollout and relatively modest stimulus will also weigh on Europe's recovery. In the absence of an increase in wages, the ECB is unlikely to react to short-term moves in inflation,
    Brzeski said.

    MY COMMENT

    This little article from LONDON is interesting. It pretty much parallels what we are seeing and thinking here. I find it interesting that in talking about the....MARKET CRASH....they NEVER happen to mention that the crash happened as a result of a VOLUNTARY closure of the economy. This was NOT some crash that happened due to a pandemic or some natural event that shocked the markets.....this happened due to our own action in closing down the economy for the first time in human history.

    AS TO BONDS: I personally dont see anything good on the horizan for bond owners. I would CERTAINLY NOT be interested in buying any bonds or bond funds any time soon if ever. With the EXTREME LOW interest rates there is nowhere to go but UP from here in the rates. That means bond values will get HAMMERED in their normal inverse fashion. Anyone making a little bit of money on a bond yield will see any benefit TOTALLY ERASED by the drop in the value of the underlying bond or bond fund.
     
  5. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    My view on long term investor results.

    We know that the SP500 will provide a....total return...of about 10-11% per year long term average. We ALSO know that even the professionals CAN NOT beat the SP500 long term. A few of them will beat it in any one year....but it is extremely RARE for the same manager to consistently beat the SP500 over any longer time period.

    I would personally consider any long term total return of 12% or above.....by any individual investor........as being EXCEPTIONAL. I have been over this figure....probably in the 14.5% to 15% range for a very long time. BUT......this result includes some LARGE capital gains in my account from a few........very specific......exceptional stocks.

    We have many investors.....especially those below age 38..........that have NEVER invested in a normal time period. Anyone that started investing since 2009.....12 years ago.....so probably anyone under about age 38.....has NEVER invested in a NORMAL time period.
    Anyone investing during this time period has had the LUCK to be investing during the GREATEST BULL MARKET in history. Even the pandemic year last year was an OUTLIER....with the SP500 returning a total return of 18.39%.

    As a result there are a HUGE number of investors out there that have a TOTALLY UNREALISTIC view of what investing results should be. They are used to......extremely high....results and at the same time OUTRAGEOUSLY LOW interest rates.

    THIS is why my investing goal is what it is..........first......to achieve a long term total return average of 10% per year. Second....the aspirational, short term goal....... to try to beat the SP500 each year. I know the first goal might seem low....but....to me.....it is a genuinely realistic goal. AND....anyone achieving this goal will end up with a MASSIVE gain over a lifetime of investing.

    My first goal will DOUBLE my money every 7.2 years. Over many years now......I.......like everyone .........have been spoiled by seeing my money double every 5-6 years. NICE to see but NOT a realistic goal over the long term for MOST investors. If you expect this sort of return....there is a real danger you will end up CHASING RETURNS. AND....that rarely ends well.

    SO.....I LOVE to see higher gains......but.....I am totally content to accept solid gains over the long term.....rather than......extreme gains.
     
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  6. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    Next week will be.....PUT UP OR SHUT UP......time for the markets on the Stimulus bill. It will be nice to see it finally done. I am tired of seeing in the media for the past 4 weeks......talk about how the markets are UP......or......DOWN today due to the Stimulus.

    NOW....we are about to see the REAL thing and how the markets react. I am thinking....perhaps......a small one day rally. BUT....I dont discount in the least the old saying......buy the rumor and sell the news. At least the financial media can now SHUT UP about the coming impact of the stimulus......and.....move on to some other day to day....short term.....reason for what is randomly happening day to day in the markets.

    The FUTURES like the stimulus......or something.....since they are up about 155 points. BUT the futures dont count for a hill of beans......lets see where we are at the close tomorrow. We need to break the back of this little correction. We will either do it this week or........at the minimum.....we will end the week one week closer to the end of the correction. I will gladly take either.
     
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  7. Globetrotter

    Globetrotter New Member

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    Hello again, I am still not a frequent poster, I am the guy who started the hydrogen discussion in case you forgot.
    Too bad that I was lagging behind 10 pages recent weeks :popcorn:. Rustic1 you clearly have not been reading starting from page 1. Or else you could have saved some time by not entering pointless discussions. It is ok to have different investing philosophies, just don't start endlessly repeating your philosophy's differences (just reference to your previous post number?;)).

    Kudos for everyone acting like gentlemen for this long.

    Let's continue the chearleading :banana:!
    This thread keeps me motivated, especially during the down days, thanks to W's and Zuko's chearleading :booyah:.

    Luckily I am not feeling this correction for now. Being oil heavy (short-medium term opportunity) it is compensating for my tech losses.
     
  8. Globetrotter

    Globetrotter New Member

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    Rustic1, a serious question: What do you plan to do at the next big dip.
    Do you invest all of your spare cash? If yes, when do you start holding back cash again for the next dip?
     
  9. Globetrotter

    Globetrotter New Member

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    Anyone following the Global clean energy ETF's here (I remember CNRG have been mentioned here)?
    What are your thoughts: - Did they rise too fast recent year (bubble territory)?
    - Is the steep rise justified due to global engagements towards cleaner energy?
     
    #4269 Globetrotter, Mar 7, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  10. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    I am oil infrastructure heavy, about 20% of my portfolio give or take. KMI and ENB have been doing quite well.

     
  11. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    That was me , CNRG an ETF, I bot back in Sept @$64 ( thinking that after election it would go up) but it has gone up since the day I bot it , On Feb 10th it hit $146, and has slowly back slip since that day. Now at $106 , over the years I have seen/bot too many stocks that get a little publicity , skyrocket up then languish into obscuria never to rise again. Also it's basically solar and EV batteries . I remember the first SOLAR companies of the 80's and 90's , lots of hype but when it came to bottom line they just couldn't deliver. BUT I could be wrong , just thinking of grabbing the cash and find some blue chips.
     
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  12. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    It is also at that point where it act's like an energy stock , market up , it's down , markets down it's up , the portfolio PE ratio is better at this price, but is still 27.35, and the yield is low at .63%
    It was the only item in all the stocks and ETF's in my portfolio that on Friday went down
     
    #4272 oldmanram, Mar 7, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  13. Rustic1

    Rustic1 Well-Known Member

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    I will never be fully invested, you tend to be trapped and unable to add/trade when opportunities arise. A index fund is a good way to diversify overall. For the most part I feel its better to rotate with the sectors and adjust accordingly.
     
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  14. oldmanram

    oldmanram Well-Known Member

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    Globetrotter
    another source of cash is when dividends come out , unless you flick the switch for dividend reinvestment.
    some do some don't , personal preference
     
  15. andyvds

    andyvds Active Member

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    I don't have that ETF - but Ballard Power and Siemens Energy are about 15% of my portfolio.

    Green energy is the future - there is no doubt about that.
     
  16. gtrudeau88

    gtrudeau88 Well-Known Member

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    Green energy transition will come in baby steps and I like Enbridge's contributions. See https://www.enbridge.com/stories/20...nbridge-gas-helping-build-green-transit-fleet as an example. Enbridge is paying a 7.42% dividend which is another reason to like the stock.
     
  17. Rustic1

    Rustic1 Well-Known Member

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    OILPRICE.COM is a good way to track that sector.
    Oil will never be completely phased out, petroleum based products are a part of everyday life until a replacement is developed.

    AI and green energy are not to be ignored.
     
  18. Globetrotter

    Globetrotter New Member

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    I agree that petroleum based products are a part of everyday life. They are the first chain of the entire chemical industry. Though the old refineries will be forced to shut and the more big and efficient refineries will survive.
     
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  19. WXYZ

    WXYZ Well-Known Member

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    I like this little article....as we wait for the open for the day and for the week. I prefer to think of it as the open of the next 3-10 years.....that puts things in a little more context.

    Rising interest rates are a good sign for stocks: Morning Brief

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stoc...g-interest-rates-morning-brief-105525383.html

    (BOLD is my opinion OR what I consider important content)
    "History says rising rates are bullish for stocks

    The recent bout of volatility in the bond market has investors concerned about what a sustained rally in interest rates could mean for stocks.

    Rising interest rates mean rising borrowing costs, which doesn't sound great for stocks. Also, higher yields arguably make bonds more attractive as an investment, which doesn't sound great for stocks either. And so it's not too surprising to see stocks trade lower (^GSPC) in the past month as yields (^TNX) have surged.

    However, financial markets are a bit more complicated than that. And it's the case that there are plenty of sound reasons to be bullish even in light of higher rates.

    Demand for stocks is strong

    Lower stock prices belie robust demand for the asset class.

    "Equity mutual fund and ETF inflows have totaled $163 billion since the start of February, the largest five-week inflow on record in absolute dollar terms and third largest in a decade relative to assets," Goldman Sachs' David Kostin observed on Friday. "Even though the recent backup in rates has weighed on equity prices broadly, the pace of inflows into equity funds during the last few weeks has accelerated compared with the start of the year."

    This isn't some historical anomaly either.

    "History shows that equity funds generally experience inflows when real rates are rising," Kostin added. "During the past 10 years, the most favorable backdrop for equity fund inflows has been when both real rates and breakeven inflation were rising. This is intuitive given that the dynamic typically occurs when growth expectations are improving."

    Furthermore, Kostin forecasts massive equity inflows from households and corporates, which both were hoarding cash during the most worrisome periods of the coronavirus pandemic.

    "We expect households will be the largest source of equity demand this year. Accelerating US economic growth has been the most significant driver of equity purchases by households during the past 30 years," he said. "Corporate demand for shares is driven primarily by net buybacks, which is calculated as gross buybacks less share issuance. Buyback authorizations total $126 billion YTD, 50% greater than the same time last year and the largest total at this point during the year on record."

    Kostin estimates net equity demand of $350 billion from households and $300 billion from corporates this year.

    History says rising rates come with higher stock prices

    "From our perspective, rising interest rates can mean that the bond market is correctly anticipating future economic growth and staying ahead of inflation — things that typically benefit stock prices," BMO Capital's Brian Belski said to Yahoo Finance on Wednesday. "A closer inspection of the data reveals that investors should welcome, not loathe, higher interest rates if history is any sort of guide."

    In a recent note to clients, Belski observed that during seven prolonged periods of rising rates since 1990, the S&P 500 climbed at an average annualized rate of 15.1%.

    [​IMG]
    "The economy is recovering because earnings are going up; the fundamentals are improving," Belski said. "So of course, interest rates are going to go up."

    All that is to say that one worrisome variable like rising interest rates is no reason to think stocks should fall. Especially, when you can argue that variable is moving for other bullish reasons like an economy that's perking up."

    MY COMMENT

    YES....more of the same.....the economy in general will continue to reopen and BOOM going forward. The RECORD low interest rates will....hopefully....rise over time. Rates are too low and need to go higher. For investors....that have some concept of history......there is nothing magic or critical to the current EXTREME low rates. A typical tempest in a teapot. Most of us have invested and made very good money over our entire lifetimes with rates....WAY HIGHER.....than we see today....which....were considered normal.

    The greatest difference I see today with investing is the......MEDIA....not the regular media but the financial media which has followed the current business model of ALL media which is to write and report in the style of supermarket tabloids.....the ones that routinely used to show a photo on the front page of some...ALIEN.....from some foreign galaxy meeting with the President on the white house lawn.

    ADD in the mania of INSTANT GRATIFICATION......and....you have the "modern" trader.

    I PITY anyone that is going to follow the current media focus on bonds and yields.....and....actually buy some. Since it is....actually....a market.....someone has to buy all those bonds. Most reflect nothing more than short term trading by speculators. BUT.....anyone that puts money into a bond fund, or into a Treasury, or any other form of bond "investment"....rather than speculation......is DOOMED to a net loss over time as the yields rise and the value of that bond plummets. the NET result will in all likelihood be a LOSS.
     
  20. zukodany

    zukodany Well-Known Member

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    Bought more Disney & Twlo at the open this morning. Interesting words from Tepper this weekend but of course this has no real relevance to how the market WILL behave, just an opinion. As always- I am fully invested for the long term (sounds familiar?) so to me what happens in the coming weeks and months is nothing but noise
     
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