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CCL - Carnival Corporation

Discussion in 'Stock Message Boards NYSE, NASDAQ, AMEX' started by StockJock-e, Jun 28, 2016.

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  1. moss_sumit

    moss_sumit Member

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    It's a good dividend paying stock for a long term hold. On my radar as well but haven't pulled the trigger yet
     
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  2. stock1234

    stock1234 2017 Stockaholics Contest Winner

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    Yeah I feel comfortable of holding it for awhile, should bounce back once the coronavirus scare is going way ;)
     
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  3. StockJock-e

    StockJock-e Brew Master
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    If this is the worst of the news here at these levels, this could be an interesting trade.
     
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  4. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    From the perspective of a Buffett disciple, CCL could have the ultimate corporate moat.

    This stock wasn't on my radar, until I started following this thread. Thank you, StockJock-e. :cool:
     
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  5. T0rm3nted

    T0rm3nted Moderator
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    I guess I'm of a different opinion LONG-term. I think the movement towards climate change awareness and the amount of pollution/ocean-dumping that cruiselines do is a recipe for a long-term downtrend. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be more interested in short-term trading this one than long-term investing.
     
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  6. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect our sensibilities align pretty well but I respectfully wish to push back on your position, just a little.

    First, I agree with everything you wrote. Seriously. Yeah, I'm not good at arguing.

    Cruise ships are energy hogs but....

    The average American uses 4650 KWh/year. I use Americans because we dominate the national makeup of cruise passengers.

    I selected a cruise ship with published energy statistics. Without a doubt, this cruise ship is modern and efficient. The larger the ship, the more efficient it is likely to be.

    Still....

    This ship carries 8880 people and consumes 11 MWh idling at port. Annualization of that consumption brings us to 11000 KWh/year. From this, I surmise people consume roughly 2.5 times more power on a cruise than at home.

    This does not take into account propulsion. This will vary by route but ships don't sail that much of the time and ships are very efficient transport. Let's assume the consumption is about 3.5 times based on wild speculation.

    The total cruise passenger count for a year is about 30 million.

    30 million people, consuming 3.5 times their normal amount of energy, for a period of 10 days, is not all that significant in a global population of 7.5 billion.

    Good work is being done to transform the cruise industry from the power hog it has been into something more reasonable. My numbers come from a modern ship, but I anticipate a further reduction of 50% or more in the next decade.

    Air travel is, by far, a greater environmental impact than cruising. Unfortunately, the two are joined at the hip.

    Meanwhile, those of us with wives understand the most staunch environmentalist could care less about the environment for 10 days while she shops for shoes and purses aboard a glamorous ship. :D

    Perhaps we share the same view but not the same estimation of the impact scale.
     
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  7. T0rm3nted

    T0rm3nted Moderator
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    I appreciate those numbers and I'm a bit busy so this will be quick. Just a few quick google searches about the pollution and ways they're breaking the law and committing environmental crimes. Things like this are what makes me think over the extremely long-term, I'd be hesitant to own something like this due to the rise in climate awareness by the younger generation.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/04/7296...h-20-million-penalty-for-environmental-crimes

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article229285319.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/02/business/princess-cruise-lines-fine.html
     
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  8. anotherdevilsadvocate

    anotherdevilsadvocate Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the energy requirements of cruise ships can be improved, I think more easily than it can be done in airplanes because the cruise ship isn't trying to stay in the air at 500 mph.

    Tom's post does ignore the pollution factor of cruise ships. But even that may not be an issue. Because the ports that cruise ships use are already polluted. It's not like they're killing coral reefs before our eyes. More pollution isn't going to make things worse where cruise ships are docking; they're already as bad as can be.
     
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  9. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    What you have cited is criminal behaviour but it has nothing to do with how environmentally viable the cruise industry is. Some people need to be fined while others need to go to jail.

    I've toured the top of glaciers and the guides would have kicked our butts, had we have carelessly thrown aside a used tissue.

    I've watched street people defecate in public but that is not the last word on the viability of bathrooms.

    The industry needs to be brought to responsibility for their environmentally hostile actions and it needs to be done on the short term. It's not only environmentally bad, it's straight up asshole behavior. Medium and long term, the cruise industry needs to work on reducing their energy footprint and improve other environmental factors.

    As far as the energy footprint goes, they could easily compensate for their 11 MW cruise ship by building a 50 MW solar farm near any major city that is powered by fossil fuels. Giant cruise ships cost upwards of a billion dollars up to $1.5B. A 50 MW solar farm to offset the emissions will cost $25~30M and it will pay for itself with a power purchase agreement.

    I believe the long term viability of cruising looks pretty good.
     
    #29 TomB16, Feb 12, 2020 at 9:00 PM
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020 at 11:22 AM
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  10. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    Anyway, I have no interest in swaying anyone's opinion to mine. The more people who think I'm a clueless nut-job, the more people I can potentially take money from in the market. That is, if they don't take my money. lol!
     
  11. T0rm3nted

    T0rm3nted Moderator
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    No hostility here my friend. I hope your outlook on cruising long-term is right, I just have zero faith in any company to convert to green energy unless forced to.
     
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  12. TomB16

    TomB16 Well-Known Member

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    I could not agree more. :cool:
     

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